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	<title>Comments on: Why is America suffering so much from a recession that Germany largely bypassed?</title>
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	<link>http://www.cjournal.info/2010/08/31/why-is-america-suffering-so-much-from-a-recession-that-germany-largely-bypassed/</link>
	<description>To change society we must first defeat the big lie</description>
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		<title>By: LibertyVini</title>
		<link>http://www.cjournal.info/2010/08/31/why-is-america-suffering-so-much-from-a-recession-that-germany-largely-bypassed/comment-page-1/#comment-2228</link>
		<dc:creator>LibertyVini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Nov 2010 06:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cjournal.info/?p=7800#comment-2228</guid>
		<description>Harry, please make a cogent argument against ONE of my points i my original post, and I will debate it with you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harry, please make a cogent argument against ONE of my points i my original post, and I will debate it with you.</p>
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		<title>By: LibertyVini</title>
		<link>http://www.cjournal.info/2010/08/31/why-is-america-suffering-so-much-from-a-recession-that-germany-largely-bypassed/comment-page-1/#comment-2227</link>
		<dc:creator>LibertyVini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Nov 2010 06:15:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cjournal.info/?p=7800#comment-2227</guid>
		<description>Spotted some more fallacies, in no particular order;

Labor Theory of Value

Giving Democrats a free pass

Saying Austrians favor aristocracy

Villifying all speculation

Roosevelt did WHAT? TR was a friend of the common man, and not a base Imperialist. FDR was not a fascist.

Claims only Austrian scholars are insulated from reality

Implies government monopolies like patent and copyright do not retard creativity in the economy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spotted some more fallacies, in no particular order;</p>
<p>Labor Theory of Value</p>
<p>Giving Democrats a free pass</p>
<p>Saying Austrians favor aristocracy</p>
<p>Villifying all speculation</p>
<p>Roosevelt did WHAT? TR was a friend of the common man, and not a base Imperialist. FDR was not a fascist.</p>
<p>Claims only Austrian scholars are insulated from reality</p>
<p>Implies government monopolies like patent and copyright do not retard creativity in the economy</p>
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		<title>By: LibertyVini</title>
		<link>http://www.cjournal.info/2010/08/31/why-is-america-suffering-so-much-from-a-recession-that-germany-largely-bypassed/comment-page-1/#comment-2226</link>
		<dc:creator>LibertyVini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Nov 2010 06:05:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cjournal.info/?p=7800#comment-2226</guid>
		<description>Harry, do monopolies exist? They do? And who do the Austrians say is responsible for the creation and maintenance of monopolies? Uh=huh, GOVERNMENT. The  Keynesians are utterly defenseless against this rebuttal, I am surprised they even bring monopolies up anymore. No monopoly can exist in even a nominally free market without government enforcement.

It is really easy to refute people like yourself who have made no attempt to understand what Austrian theory teaches, and its real-world applications, and who parrot Krugman&#039;s asinine, facile dismissals. Here, BTW, is an incredibly good idea to compel Krugman to actually debate Austrian economist Bob Murphy;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cFXRFlvE3s</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harry, do monopolies exist? They do? And who do the Austrians say is responsible for the creation and maintenance of monopolies? Uh=huh, GOVERNMENT. The  Keynesians are utterly defenseless against this rebuttal, I am surprised they even bring monopolies up anymore. No monopoly can exist in even a nominally free market without government enforcement.</p>
<p>It is really easy to refute people like yourself who have made no attempt to understand what Austrian theory teaches, and its real-world applications, and who parrot Krugman&#8217;s asinine, facile dismissals. Here, BTW, is an incredibly good idea to compel Krugman to actually debate Austrian economist Bob Murphy;<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cFXRFlvE3s" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cFXRFlvE3s</a></p>
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		<title>By: Harry Canary</title>
		<link>http://www.cjournal.info/2010/08/31/why-is-america-suffering-so-much-from-a-recession-that-germany-largely-bypassed/comment-page-1/#comment-2199</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry Canary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Oct 2010 06:30:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cjournal.info/?p=7800#comment-2199</guid>
		<description>A Nobel in Economics for hayek or anyone else belongs on their mantle alongside the Nobel for Astrology, Alchemy and the one for Necromancy.  The Austrian nonsense does not deal with several very real problems.  They are glorified theoreticians with no practical real world experience.  The first is how to break up corporate and monopoly power.  In the past the government has been the vehicle for this despite you nonsense trashing of both roosevelt&#039;s efforts.  Their efforts were not perfect but far more real than any of your Austrian heroes let alone reagan, miltie friedmann or any of the other republicons and CONservatives who are all entirely in the pocket of big business.  Today, due to reagan&#039;s efforts corporate power has hijacked the government and any remotely viable parties including the teabagging party.

The second problem the Austrians and their libertarian teabagging friends fails to address is the problem of inherited aristocracy.  The American republic was founded on a disdain for aristocracy and an understanding of the devastating problems it causes.  With inherited wealth, power and the means of production are passed on as a reward for who a persons grandma had sex with, not for productivity or benefit to society.  The European Dark Ages are a direct consequence of this mentality.  How do we continue with the creative churning necessary for a healthy economy if the rewards are hoarded based on inheritance?  Capitalism assumes that ownership of the means of production is what moves society forward rather than work and effort.  That assumption is proving to be disastrous as financiers crash our economy with non productive speculation.  This speculation is a direct chain from the assumption that wealth alone begets wealth.  No longer do they worry about investing productively or focusing on investment and work to produce.  The finance weasels assume their personal superior genetics causes money to magically multiply.

The Austrian and libertarian nonsense fails entirely to recognize the role of checks and balance, so fundamental to teh success of our government.  President Roosevelt introduced them into our economy as well resulting in a long and successful preiod of growth till these checks and balances were removed by right wing and libertaricon ideologues.  All of these right wingnuts condemned government from a position of having spent their lives in academics or government not having produced in the real world.  The same applies to virtually every wingnut and libertarian as well as the Austrian academics sheltered in European government funded universities to spin their theories about the evil of government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A Nobel in Economics for hayek or anyone else belongs on their mantle alongside the Nobel for Astrology, Alchemy and the one for Necromancy.  The Austrian nonsense does not deal with several very real problems.  They are glorified theoreticians with no practical real world experience.  The first is how to break up corporate and monopoly power.  In the past the government has been the vehicle for this despite you nonsense trashing of both roosevelt&#8217;s efforts.  Their efforts were not perfect but far more real than any of your Austrian heroes let alone reagan, miltie friedmann or any of the other republicons and CONservatives who are all entirely in the pocket of big business.  Today, due to reagan&#8217;s efforts corporate power has hijacked the government and any remotely viable parties including the teabagging party.</p>
<p>The second problem the Austrians and their libertarian teabagging friends fails to address is the problem of inherited aristocracy.  The American republic was founded on a disdain for aristocracy and an understanding of the devastating problems it causes.  With inherited wealth, power and the means of production are passed on as a reward for who a persons grandma had sex with, not for productivity or benefit to society.  The European Dark Ages are a direct consequence of this mentality.  How do we continue with the creative churning necessary for a healthy economy if the rewards are hoarded based on inheritance?  Capitalism assumes that ownership of the means of production is what moves society forward rather than work and effort.  That assumption is proving to be disastrous as financiers crash our economy with non productive speculation.  This speculation is a direct chain from the assumption that wealth alone begets wealth.  No longer do they worry about investing productively or focusing on investment and work to produce.  The finance weasels assume their personal superior genetics causes money to magically multiply.</p>
<p>The Austrian and libertarian nonsense fails entirely to recognize the role of checks and balance, so fundamental to teh success of our government.  President Roosevelt introduced them into our economy as well resulting in a long and successful preiod of growth till these checks and balances were removed by right wing and libertaricon ideologues.  All of these right wingnuts condemned government from a position of having spent their lives in academics or government not having produced in the real world.  The same applies to virtually every wingnut and libertarian as well as the Austrian academics sheltered in European government funded universities to spin their theories about the evil of government.</p>
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		<title>By: LibertyVini</title>
		<link>http://www.cjournal.info/2010/08/31/why-is-america-suffering-so-much-from-a-recession-that-germany-largely-bypassed/comment-page-1/#comment-2142</link>
		<dc:creator>LibertyVini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Sep 2010 03:29:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cjournal.info/?p=7800#comment-2142</guid>
		<description>Lots of good observations here from a left perspective, particularly regarding the impact of tax policy on the manufacturing sector, though regulation and Fed meddling play a big role as well. But a few quibbles;

1) Teddy Roosevelt was no hero, he was a tool of Morgan, and his &quot;trust-busting&quot; was no more than a smashing of Morgan&#039;s rivals, principally Rockefeller, followed by cartellization of all industries Morgan controlled. FDR was just as bad, but he played on the side of the Rockefeller - Harriman - Kuhn Loeb group, and busted up Morgan cartels. 

2) Technically, the US did not see real economic growth until 1946, when the war ended, and pent-up demand and de-regimentation of the wartime control economy erased 17 years of Depression.

3)Subsidizing salaries is NUTS. It&#039;s an admission as a government that you have broken the labor market and you refuse to let it clear. Germany&#039;s labor market is vastly different than the US culturally, politically, ethnically, and with regard to harmful regulation. And protectionism just protects inefficient, uncompetitive industries that destroy wealth, and invites trade retaliation. E.G, Smoot-Hawley.

4) On the other hand, a low, uniform tariff, coupled with VERY light regulation of the export sector tends to build wealth. But our economy is so rife with misregulation and cross-subsidy that it is impossible to know anymore what our leading industries should be.

5)Gabriel Kolko and many others have shown, beyond refutation that in the US, regulation is written by and for the biggest players in the regulated industry to disadvantage competitors and cartellize most of the business into the hands of a few gigantic firms, who can then run roughshod over everybody, workers and customers alike. This is an important reason we are in the pickle we are in - the game is rigged, There is no free market, except at very local levels. 

6) Finally, Keynesianism is not economics, it is not science, it is superstitious voodoo like CDS and the Federal Reserve itself, a gigantic humbug fabricated to provide justification for the evil things the owners of this country want to do to us. Anyone in authority who puts forth such insane Kenesian notions as &quot;stimulus&quot; spending by government should have his head examined. When the government finally defaults on its paper promises, as bad as things MIGHT have gotten, had Hank Paulson not bailed out his buddies, followed by Obama and Geithner doing the same, it will be a thousand times worse when the stimulus fails. We are talking about hyperinflation, like we experienced in the 1970&#039;s, or worse, like Weimar Germany, and we all know how THAT turned out.

7) I want to know why when Hayek won the Nobel prize for Economics, EVERYONE in the mainstream press, but particularly the left put it down, saying it isn&#039;t really a &quot;Nobel Prize&quot;, they are a bunch of cranks, whatever; when Krugman wins, suddenly it&#039;s a prestigious award, filling the winner with Godlike authority. Well Krugman is a Keynesian, and Hayek was not. When Keynsianism is shown up as a failure, AGAIN, will the mainstream and the left hail Hayek, and Mises, and Rothbard, who were right before the crisis hit, and have been proven right again and again? 

They will bollocks. There is no way the Austrians will ever be even grudgingly admitted to be right. It doesn&#039;t serve the powers that be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lots of good observations here from a left perspective, particularly regarding the impact of tax policy on the manufacturing sector, though regulation and Fed meddling play a big role as well. But a few quibbles;</p>
<p>1) Teddy Roosevelt was no hero, he was a tool of Morgan, and his &#8220;trust-busting&#8221; was no more than a smashing of Morgan&#8217;s rivals, principally Rockefeller, followed by cartellization of all industries Morgan controlled. FDR was just as bad, but he played on the side of the Rockefeller &#8211; Harriman &#8211; Kuhn Loeb group, and busted up Morgan cartels. </p>
<p>2) Technically, the US did not see real economic growth until 1946, when the war ended, and pent-up demand and de-regimentation of the wartime control economy erased 17 years of Depression.</p>
<p>3)Subsidizing salaries is NUTS. It&#8217;s an admission as a government that you have broken the labor market and you refuse to let it clear. Germany&#8217;s labor market is vastly different than the US culturally, politically, ethnically, and with regard to harmful regulation. And protectionism just protects inefficient, uncompetitive industries that destroy wealth, and invites trade retaliation. E.G, Smoot-Hawley.</p>
<p>4) On the other hand, a low, uniform tariff, coupled with VERY light regulation of the export sector tends to build wealth. But our economy is so rife with misregulation and cross-subsidy that it is impossible to know anymore what our leading industries should be.</p>
<p>5)Gabriel Kolko and many others have shown, beyond refutation that in the US, regulation is written by and for the biggest players in the regulated industry to disadvantage competitors and cartellize most of the business into the hands of a few gigantic firms, who can then run roughshod over everybody, workers and customers alike. This is an important reason we are in the pickle we are in &#8211; the game is rigged, There is no free market, except at very local levels. </p>
<p>6) Finally, Keynesianism is not economics, it is not science, it is superstitious voodoo like CDS and the Federal Reserve itself, a gigantic humbug fabricated to provide justification for the evil things the owners of this country want to do to us. Anyone in authority who puts forth such insane Kenesian notions as &#8220;stimulus&#8221; spending by government should have his head examined. When the government finally defaults on its paper promises, as bad as things MIGHT have gotten, had Hank Paulson not bailed out his buddies, followed by Obama and Geithner doing the same, it will be a thousand times worse when the stimulus fails. We are talking about hyperinflation, like we experienced in the 1970&#8242;s, or worse, like Weimar Germany, and we all know how THAT turned out.</p>
<p>7) I want to know why when Hayek won the Nobel prize for Economics, EVERYONE in the mainstream press, but particularly the left put it down, saying it isn&#8217;t really a &#8220;Nobel Prize&#8221;, they are a bunch of cranks, whatever; when Krugman wins, suddenly it&#8217;s a prestigious award, filling the winner with Godlike authority. Well Krugman is a Keynesian, and Hayek was not. When Keynsianism is shown up as a failure, AGAIN, will the mainstream and the left hail Hayek, and Mises, and Rothbard, who were right before the crisis hit, and have been proven right again and again? </p>
<p>They will bollocks. There is no way the Austrians will ever be even grudgingly admitted to be right. It doesn&#8217;t serve the powers that be.</p>
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