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Today's main topic: Reaction to Saddam's judicial murder

 

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GO TO PART TWO OF POLEMICS: REACTION TO SADDAM'S DEATH (WARNING: THIS PART CARRIES VIDEO OF HIS EXECUTION)

 

 

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Like a blue-blood version of a Mob family with global reach, the Bushes have eliminated one more key witness to the important historical events that led the U.S. military into a bloody stalemate in Iraq and pushed the Middle East to the brink of calamity. —Rober Parry, noted investigative reporter. [CLICK HERE TO READ RELATED ARTICLE]

childWatchSaddamDie

Iraqi child watches Saddam hang...Three of Saddam's defense lawyers were murdered

with impunity, and the trial was riddled with violations of proper procedure...but you

won't hear those little details from CNN.

 

The following thread appears in today's edition <12.31.06>of the GUARDIAN (U.K.) a liberal/left publication.

 

Comments

A flawed trial and an execution are just another blatant illustration of the situation in Iraq. A process that pretends to bring democracy should, ad least, have given a fair trial and a non-barbaric punishment. But, of course, Iraq is not an emerging democracy. This is chaos caused by an illegitimate invasion planed by morons. Saddam should have also stood trial for his other crimes. But the international court in the Hague should have been the right place for such a purpose. Posted by Philippe on December 30, 2006 12:40 PM.

 

Saddam's hanging is closely followed in the news run-down by the fact that John Scarlett has been honoured as a reward for helping Tony to start his little war. Meanwhile, Tony is enjoying another cost-challenged holiday, this time in Miami. With a little luck, Horatio Caine will soon be standing over him, and uttering another gnomic bon mot such as "He who lives by the sword," (glasses on)"dies by the gold-plated AK47." Posted by joedoone on December 30, 2006 12:45 PM.

 

The loss of one of its major heros is a tragic event for the progressive movement. His adamant opposition to Israel and his attempts to kill Jews by firing missiles at Israel won him the support of the leftists. Posted by RogerINtheUSA on December 30, 2006 01:36 PM.

 

Dear Editor, I searched through GUARDIAN UNLIMITED's many triumphalist articles reporting, indeed celebrating, the barbaric treatment handed out to Saddam Hussein this morning in order to find a place to comment and finally was able to find this one. So, the Guardian has become a champion of the hang-knot! One can only believe that your publication is as far corrupted from its once progressive mission as is the so-called "New" Labour Party, rotten to the core and a pimple on the ass of Washington proto-fascists. Tony Vodvarka, Hartly DE USA Posted by TonyVodvarka on December 30, 2006 01:48 PM.

 

How can the West continue to present this ill-conceived war as a way to introduce democracy to the region by supporting this revenge killing and denying Saddam the justice of a trial in the the Hague? The model of reconciliation through truth used in South Africa and the subsequent successes found in that country have shown the world the way forward. These actions of revenge will do nothing but continue the spiral of revenge killings and further the cause of those in the region who seek to profit from the instability. Saddam was a monster who showed his victims no mercy or justice, sound familiar? Posted by kdawg on December 30, 2006 01:51 PM.

 

RogerintheUSA, you are a fool! Posted by bongoid on December 30, 2006 01:59 PM.

 

So the secular atheist takes on the trappings of a muslim just before the just and right extinction of his life, what a farce. Iraq should be put to rest too at this time. There never ever was an Iraq, it is the figment of typical botched British colonialism. Iraq existed because of the despotic tyannical rule of Saddam unless someone else is willing to step up to that position Iraq should be allowed to devolved into three parts: Kurdistan in the northeast, a province of Iran in the southwest, and a province of Jordan in the west. The zionist jews of the Bush administration were wrong about everything, especially the fact that there was an Iraq and that it could be made a democracy. Most of these despicable zionist jews have crawled under rocks and will not thwart the obvious. If they do they should be crushed. Posted by AlphonseWarakomski on December 30, 2006 02:25 PM.

 

In the moslem world, it is the custom to slaughter a sheep [sic] on such a religious festivity - Eid AlAdha-as a sacrifice.It seems Iraq has run short of sheeps so the authorities have turned to Saddam to offer him as an immolation not to God but to the Iraqi people . Hast thou seen any religious man who could sacrifice such a brutal being ?! Posted by Hashimi on December 30, 2006 03:34 PM.

 

AlphonseWarakomski: there is no such thing as a just and right execution. An execution is always wrong, no matter who or for what crime. Posted by bobom on December 30, 2006 03:57 PM.

 

Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. how the mighty fall eh? A bit harsh i thought. i mean, who hasn't been responsible for the death of the odd man & boy? if i had a dollar for every time i'd gassed a kurd, etc. oh well at least he's with his boys now, with all those virgins, probably best, better than US custody any day of the week i'll bet Posted by jakatak on December 30, 2006 04:01 PM.

 

Victors' Justice 'Iraqi' Government Murdered Saddam on Orders of the White House. Saddam if Guilty should be 'Executed' by an International Court of Justice and Not the Lawless Mehdi Army. Mass Slaughter of Innocent Iraqi Men, Women and Children by US and UK's Weapons of Mass Destruction ' Illegal War - Innocent Iraqis Murdered by US and British Murderers. The 'Special' Iraqi Kangaroo Court that 'Sentenced' Saddam to Death, was 'Created' by Paul Bremer, the US Administrator of Occupied Iraq in 2003 and the 'Death Sentence' was Carried out in December 2006 by the US Created 'Special' Court. The Execution of Saddam by the US Occupiers was insensitively conducted during the Muslim Feast of Eid al-Adha and it is an affront to all Arabs and Muslims. This Execution by the US 'Iraqi' Government 'Stinks' of US Interference through the US 'Puppet' Iraqi Government. Bush and Blair Must be Convicted in the International Court For War Crimes in the Haque. Bush, Blair and British Politicians are Mass Murderers. Ex-British 3 Para. Posted by CarlSnr on December 30, 2006 04:25 PM.

 

I don't know why but this just makes me feel unaccountably sad. Maybe it is just that it won't really change anything. But also a sense of anger at how so called western democracies continue to get away with creating Saddam's and then destroying them as it suits their purpose. Bush calls it a milestone, but towards what exactly- does he really have an end in mind beyond what is self-serving? Posted by mchammered on December 30, 2006 04:57 PM.

 

Roger in the USA: You are a real dummy if you are unaware of the active US support, funding and arming of the evil Saddam that you are so happy to now execute. Please see this image of the former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld meeting Saddam (but the US didn't know he was a bad man then- did they??) How deliberately naive and false people like you are. Here is the picture:- http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/11/Donald_saddam.jpg Posted by wheresthewmd on December 30, 2006 05:04 PM.

 

 

Now one tyrant has met his maker, however brutal his death was, I wish no violence to anyone but Bush and Blair deserve same fate for killing almost million humans by their pigheadedness. May God protect the innocent. Posted by exeteradam on December 30, 2006 05:22 PM.

 

I have worked for many years in Kuwait and many of my Kuwaiti friends lost brothers, fathers, and uncles when Saddam Hussein invaded their land. Their brothers, fathers, and uncles simply disappeared - they were transported to Iraq by Hussein and were never heard of again. They have still not been heard of. Today with the hanging of this evil tyrant many Kuwaiti families rightly feel that justice has been done. Also, by having lived and worked in Kuwait for many years I have heard of the hideous methods of torture which Saddam Hussein used on Kuwaitis during his occupation of their country. I have personally visited an exhibition of all the many gadgets and instruments of torture which the Iraqi forces used. I have seen the bottles which were rammed up the arses of Kuwaiti men. I have seen the crude electrics by which shocks were inflicted. And so today by heart is with my Kuwaiti friends who suffered under this dictator and I share their satisfaction in the tyrant's death. Britain and the USA removed Saddam Hussein from power and today a court democratically elected by the people of Iraq finally delivered justice upon a tyrant. These facts are inarguable. Posted by CityGardens on December 30, 2006 05:39 PM.

No one is arguing that Saddam was a nice guy. That's not the issue here. The issue is that his country was invaded under false pretenses, utterly destroyed and flung into infernal chaos, with consequent loss of more than a million people, and the triggering of a vicious civil war with no end in sight; and that such actions were NOT motivated by high-falutin' "moral" reasons like deposing a tyrant, or establishing democracy, for Saddam was the West's own creation, and his mentors started noticing his "moral flaws" and "undemocratic ways" ONLY after he began to refuse to follow their assigned script, written by the imperial masters in Washington and London. Same happened to Noriega. It is the sheer colossal hypocrisy and cynicism of these plutocratic mafias in control of these superpowers that the thinking world resents. Posted by Scaramouche on December 30, 2006 05:40 PM

CityGardens you miss the point, an eye for an eye leaves the world blind and you are heading in that direction. I loath Saddam and all out there who supported him and that includes Kuwaitis and Americans when they flooded him with money to attack Iran. I wish this tyrant was kept alive and put on trial to account for murders of all at his hands, now that opportunity is gone forever and you and other Neocon sympathisers can forget the daily carnage brought by his removal, hide behind the Iraqi democracy!!!!! Posted by exeteradam on December 30, 2006 05:47 PM.

 

Exeteradam, your passion is somewhat misplaced. This case of an "eye for an eye" has NOT left "the world" "blind", has it? You can still read my words and I am reading yours. One thing that has been achieved is that it has been demonstrated that those who indulge in evil and believe they can get away with it by hiding behind their own borders cannot. This is a powerful message of disincentive. You appear to imply that the removal of Saddam Hussein is directly reponsible for "daily carnage". That is quite ridiculous. The "daily carnage" is partly the behaviour of those who still carry Saddam Hussein's warped view of life in their heads. It is also the natural behaviour of a people who have never known freedom. It is to be expected that it will take many years for most of the Iraqi people to learn how to behave democratically. There is a lot of learning to be done. However, it can be achieved and it will be - just as we are seeing the two sides in Northern Ireland slowly adjust to a new form of behaviour. Lastly, it is rather rash and ill-considered of you to name-call as "neo-cons" those who see a more balanced and broader picture of events than you have. Posted by CityGardens on December 30, 2006 06:16 PM.

 

Now that Saddam has been executed, can we hope for the following? 1 An acknowledgement of the extent to which the US and UK among others supported and armed him for years 2 Find out how much official criticism (or lack of it) there was of him and his regime when Halabja and other atrocities took place 3 There are many other countries in the world which are ruled by brutal tyrants who have committed crimes against their own people...can we look forward to a US/UK invasion of these countries soon, and the tyrants brought to justice? But..whoops..what if some of these tyrants serve US/UK interests? What if there is no oil or other useful resources? Is is worth bothering? 4 The US and UK have set an important precedent...invade a country under false pretences and set up a puppet government to do their bidding. Well done! Welcome to the rule of law! Posted by citizenoftheworld on December 30, 2006 07:00 PM.

 

"The US and UK have set an important precedent...invade a country under false pretences and set up a puppet government to do their bidding." Are you serious? This precedent was set ages ago and has been repeated many many times since. Posted by soccerdad on December 30, 2006 07:25 PM.

 

Personally I'm against hanging but it seems a bloody good idea to get rid of mass-murderers and oppressors in this fashion. So hopefully we'll be seeing Bush and Blair strung up together over the coming weeks? Anyone want to estimate their combined body-counts? Is it higher than Saddams? If so, what can we do about it in our 'democracies'? Posted by UnknownGunman on December 30, 2006 07:29 PM.

 

Saddam deserved to die, I suppose,.....but not yet! He was hung by U.S. puppet Government in Iraq, at the instruction of mass murderer Bush, so that he can never tell the world how the U.S and G. Britain, supplied him with Arms, Gas, Money,etc, in their war with Iran (at least 1,000,000 dead, Christ knows how many injured) I'm being naive I suppose but trying him in The Hague, in terms of real International Law would have been appropriate, but that didn't suit the "Coalition of the Killing". They don't want the truth ruining their side of things. Hanging Saddam was a dirty deed done dirt cheap! Posted by bwyan on December 30, 2006 08:14 PM.

 

The murder of the ex-President of a once independent and sovereign country at the instigation of the US occupying force-aided by its puppet the present UKn regime-is an act of barbarism. How can an invading imperialistic force, which occupies the country pretend that this was a sentence passed on by an independent Iraqi court. Bullshit. It was a mockery of a trial, similar to Stalin's show-trials, with the result a foregone conclusion. They wanted to humilliate the proud Iraqi nation. Why was the court case not held in an independent international court. This "court" was a bad joke. Saddam did not stand a chance of a fair trial, the US occupying powers changed several times the jugdes if they did not perform according to the wishes of the occupying masters. I think it was the UK foreign secretary who said that whilst she does not approve herself in the UK of the death sentence, she nevertheless "respects the will of the Iraqi people and their institution".Sic! What an utter peace of cold cynicism! Saddam was accused of having signed death sentences passed down by his country's judicial system on people who attempted to kill him, the President of the country. I wonder what would happen if people attempted to kill Bush? The US system would certainly pass down death sentences which Bush would approve. Does this make him a mass murderer? How many death sentences did he approve as Governor of Texas?! Why do senile Western media not write about him as a "murderer, who murdered xxx people who attempted to murder him", like they wrote about Saddam. Even he would have deserved a fair trial. So much about the pretended values of the so-called Western "civilization"! i am disgusted. If Saddam is said to have been "one of the worst mass murderers of modern times" where does this leave Bush, Blair and Olmert. When will they hang? Afterwards I will, of course,"respect the will of the respective nations , authorities etc which have hanged them". With Bush at its head the US regime is the greatest menace to world peace. He, Blair and Olmert should be tried by the International Court of Justice for crimes against humanity an be hanged as mass murderers, which they are! There is only one hope left; and that is a strengthened Russia and China who would put a stop to this bullying US behaviour by jolly well bloody its nose right,royally. The sooner, the better. I have never thought that I could ever become so anti the present US regime (mind you not Americans themselves). Just as I am not against Jews but am against Zionists. Posted by DrNobel on December 30, 2006 08:21 PM.

 

How does the Guardian let this kind of racist, anti-semite drivel to appear on its website?!: "Most of these despicable zionist jews have crawled under rocks and will not thwart the obvious. If they do they should be crushed." Posted by AlphonseWarakomski on December 30, 2006 02:25 PM. People whose names end in "-ski" need to be careful as the slavs of Eastern Europe, particularly Russia and Poland, have an appalling history of racism, Nazi collaboration and homophobic bigotry. Clean up your act or crawl back under your stone bigot Alphonse. Of course, the Jews were secretly behind Saadam's regime, 9/11, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and engage in black magic and child cannabilism... Posted by lastsocialist on December 30, 2006 08:50 PM.

 

I feel extremely offended by the welcome given to the execution of Saddam Hussein. Capital punishment is wrong and it amounts to inhuman and degrading treatment. The trial itself was not fair according to Human Rights Watch. Accordingly, what we have heard about today is a political murder, which has been warmly greeted by the US administration and the British government. It is a sad day human rights. The only people who will be strengthened by today are those who would wish to characterise human rights as western imperial hypocrisy. Thanks to the outrageous stupidity and arrogance of our leaders, we are losing the War on Terror. Posted by LostontheLeft on December 30, 2006 08:50 PM.

 

Ref: DrNobel's comment - 'If Saddam is said to have been "one of the worst mass murderers of modern times" where does this leave Bush,Blair and Olmert. When will they hang? Afterwards I will, of course,"respect the will of the respective nations , authorities etc which have hanged them". ' I wondered how long it would be before we would have the usual rantings about hanging Bush and Blair. They really must stop this nonsense and think for one moment as to how we compare the British and American leaders with this Iraqi former president. No, Bush does not gas or order the shooting in cold blood of his people. Neither does Blair. Arguably they may both be accused, with hindsight and in a worsening factional climate, of inadvisedly going to war against an unstable, badly split land, with insufficient consideration to the posible consequences, but they are NOT mass murderers. I am against the death penalty, even for Saddam, though I respect the views taken by other cultures where life and even death may be valued in different ways. And the whole idea that a trial in The Hague would have been acceptable to Iraqis is crazy! Saddam's trial would never have been accepted as genuinely independent or under ANY Iraqi control if it had taken place in The Hague, an organisation seen as western and therefore prejudiced by people in the Middle East. And the replacement of judges was done - WHY? Because of the factions killing the Iraqi legal teams. Not just because the Americans had gone off one or two of them! Have you noticed - the people in the streets of Iraq today have not exactly been screaming in anger about Saddam's execution? Why have they seemed so pleased and relieved? Partly because they lived under the monster whose intructions left the bloated bodies of babies still cradled in their mothers' arms. Partly because theirs were the Muslim husbands and sons taken and shot by his evil regime for the sin of not being a Sunni. Partly because their history and culture teaches them that death was his due. This sentence of yours is self-evidently wrong. "They wanted to humilate the proud Iraki nation." We in the west may not agree with execution, and our hopes to bring the middle east into our way of thinking has in many ways led to the confusion that is now Iraq. But let us never be fooled into thinking that it is all our doing. If political misjudgements were made, and they may have been, they have been made by mature democratically elected governments who went through all the usual UN channels before they acted. Perhaps you should question the genuineness of your own stand against capital punsihment. Certainly your desire to see Bush and Blair suffer the same fate is not an example of clear thinking. Sic - "With Bush at its head the US regime is the greatest menace to world peace.He, Blair and Olmert should be tried by the International Court of Justice for crimes against humanity an be hanged as massmurderers which they are!" And get your facts right - trial in The Hague would not lead to a death sentence for anyone. Also, are you expecting to be taken seriously with this statement? "There is only one hope left; and that is a strengthened Russia and China who would put a stop to this bullying US behaviour by jolly well bloody its nose right, royally." Would this be the same Russia and China that the rest of us know, where human rights are ignored and state-sponsored murder still continues to this day (it is reported)? Or are you living in a parallel universe? http://keeptonyblairforpm.wordpress.com Posted by BlairSupporter on December 30, 2006 10:14 PM.

 

"RogerintheUSA, you are a fool! Posted by bongoid on December 30, 2006 01:59 PM.

 

Hi, Bongoid Read through the postings here, and see for yourself how devastated the commentators are by Saddam's death, and how angered they are by the justice meted out to him. Remember that half a century ago the progressive movement was similarly supportive of Stalin and Mao. Cheers, and hopes for a better, more peaceful New Year. Posted by RogerINtheUSA on December 30, 2006 10:46 PM.

 

"You can't win Lord Vader. Strike me down, and I will come back more powerfully that you could possibly imagine." Posted by sund1ata on December 30, 2006 11:54 PM.

Now [that] Saddam has been executed and Iraq has been plunged into more internal conflict it's time The United States asserted more control over the oil wells so they can continue to run their gas guzzling cars which they need to transport their fat stupid population around from one fast food restaurant to the other. After all, that is what the war on terror is all about. Posted by generalbacardi on December 31, 2006 12:09 AM.

This is not a thing to condone. Whoever, whyever, wherever. I feel as sickened by a picture of a despot put to death as a hostage hooded and executed. I know it's not the same but, still. How can we just shrug our shoulders and say that's the way they do it "over there" when I thought the whole point was ... damn I don't know that I know what the point was? Well hey too late now. Just another page in history. Posted by LottieN on December 31, 2006 12:53 AM.

 

The reason that the UK doesnt have the death penalty is because there has never been a referendum on this matter. If there was, of course the great unwashed public would vote for legalised murder. That doesnt mean its right. As Bukowski said, "When the masses go in one direction, run like hell in the opposite direction". There are many who know that this killing was wrong, and is a major mistake in the 'future' of 'democratic' (LOL) Iraq. An ugly day for those of us who know that killing is simply wrong, no matter who does it. If you posted here that you support this murder, you are lying to yourself. Seek help. Posted by dithers on December 31, 2006 04:30 AM.

 

While I am delighted that Saddam is no longer able to terrorise his population, his execution left me feeling somewhat uncomfortable. Here's why. Firstly, his trial was a joke. Compared to the legal process used to try Milosovic, Saddam was subjected to something that at best resembled a kangaroo court. He was clearly guilty - what was so terribly wrong in holding him to account for all his actions? Secondly - and on a broader note - the whole nature of the efforts to bring justice to the leaders of the former Ba'ath administration is tragically misguided. After all, what would be so terribly wrong with following the South African model and having something along the lines of a 'Truth and Reconciliation Commission'? By executing Saddam, the Sunni population will merely feel more deeply agrieved towards the Shia, further fuelling the insurgency. While his death will help some of the Shia population move on, Saddam was already widely regarded as part of Iraqi history, and not part of Iraq today - the big turning point for both the Shia and Kurdish populations or Iraq was the 2003 US invasion. Saddam's execution is a small symbolic action that will have far greater repercussions for those who welcomed it. Finally, what hope is there that Iraq will become a decent country - where violence is not regarded as the ultimate authority - when the new leadership remains happy to mete out the same methods of punishment that the Ba'athists employed? What with executioners concealed behind balaclavas, the video even looked like the sort of thing that Abu Musab al Zaquari delighted in. Posted by BucketOfWater on December 31, 2006 04:52 AM.

 

 

GO TO PART TWO OF POLEMICS: REACTION TO SADDAM'S DEATH (WARNING: THIS PART CARRIES VIDEO OF HIS EXECUTION)

 

 

"PLEASE REMEMBER: No matter how involved we get in our human causes, we must never forget that one of the cruelest oppressions around...is that which our own species perpetrates every day on billions of defenceless animals."